Post by darthjupiter on Aug 24, 2018 21:21:01 GMT -5
Although we are stereotyped as worshipping pagan gods in the guises of saints and angels by Protestant fundamentalists, in reality Roman Catholicism is quite divided on the issue of intercession.
On one far extreme, quite common in Latin America and recent converts to Catholicism such as African nations and subcultures in Catholic Europe such as the Bendettas of Italy, is to literally use sorcery and even witchcraft to work with Saints. I have a book on local Mexican Catholic rituals and it features a section of instructions from what candles to use to what prayers to say in a novena and so on in order to convince the Saint to petition for your cause and intercede on your behalf. Even food offering to Saint statues and the belief Saints are literally listening to you and have magic powers as spirits that interact with you. If you want for example money you do rituals with Saint Jude and can be expected to get some cash in the near future. I even seen some of these traditions attempt to communicate with saints using pendulums, ouija boards, meditation, etc and playing Church Chants in a room with Mary statue to please the Virgin directly or sprinkling holy water on a crucifix to quince Christ's thirst.
Practically some cultures such practise intercession in a manner that appears polytheistic that support Protestant criticism. Indeed often it seems like they're communicating with real spiritual entities.
Mainstream Catholic thought is that indeed there are miracles when you do intercession with Saints however it has nothing to do witht he Saint's own actions and its God doing everything. The Saints merely send your message to God. While patronage exists, mainstream Catholicism believes that just because Joan of Arc represents prisoners it doesn't mean doing a novena with her means you get a free card to prison. All the Saints do is support your petition to God and hopefully God will answer them. Although patronages exist because some Saints have a consistent record of getting prayers answered for specific areas like police and in addition the Saints themselves my be allowed by God to send small signals for guidance (such as your dog digging and finding a flaw in the house right after you asked Joseph to intercede on you). However its not direct interaction like in the first paragraph. At best you might receive a dream giving hints on what to do in life but its because God grants permission to the Saint to do miracles, not because the Saint is interacting with you face to face in the dream. Basically God uses the Saints as messengers and to give a flicker of light. But it is ultimately God 's power that saves your dad from Cancer and the Saints have nothing to do with it other than sending messages.
STrict Church doctrine (as in what the Catholic Church writings actually say) believe that intercession is merely asking someone you adore to pray for you. This can include dead relatives, not just Saints, and while miracles might occur,, the prayer doesn't guarantee anything not even a sign or strange events giving advice. Hell I seen one priests state intercession wouldn't have done anything and God probably would have still sent the miracle with or without it. Basically intercession is just a way of "keeping a community" of devout believers but is not magical at all (even with Saints) according to strict Catholic documents. I seen priests criticize the two above paragraph's practice of intercession (especially the first one), saying that those methods are polytheistic and blasphemy worthy of mortal sin.
How does intercession work in the Anglican Communion and modern American Episcopal denominations ? This is one thing I grew up with and I can't imagine abandoning it if I convert to Anglican or Episcopal.
On one far extreme, quite common in Latin America and recent converts to Catholicism such as African nations and subcultures in Catholic Europe such as the Bendettas of Italy, is to literally use sorcery and even witchcraft to work with Saints. I have a book on local Mexican Catholic rituals and it features a section of instructions from what candles to use to what prayers to say in a novena and so on in order to convince the Saint to petition for your cause and intercede on your behalf. Even food offering to Saint statues and the belief Saints are literally listening to you and have magic powers as spirits that interact with you. If you want for example money you do rituals with Saint Jude and can be expected to get some cash in the near future. I even seen some of these traditions attempt to communicate with saints using pendulums, ouija boards, meditation, etc and playing Church Chants in a room with Mary statue to please the Virgin directly or sprinkling holy water on a crucifix to quince Christ's thirst.
Practically some cultures such practise intercession in a manner that appears polytheistic that support Protestant criticism. Indeed often it seems like they're communicating with real spiritual entities.
Mainstream Catholic thought is that indeed there are miracles when you do intercession with Saints however it has nothing to do witht he Saint's own actions and its God doing everything. The Saints merely send your message to God. While patronage exists, mainstream Catholicism believes that just because Joan of Arc represents prisoners it doesn't mean doing a novena with her means you get a free card to prison. All the Saints do is support your petition to God and hopefully God will answer them. Although patronages exist because some Saints have a consistent record of getting prayers answered for specific areas like police and in addition the Saints themselves my be allowed by God to send small signals for guidance (such as your dog digging and finding a flaw in the house right after you asked Joseph to intercede on you). However its not direct interaction like in the first paragraph. At best you might receive a dream giving hints on what to do in life but its because God grants permission to the Saint to do miracles, not because the Saint is interacting with you face to face in the dream. Basically God uses the Saints as messengers and to give a flicker of light. But it is ultimately God 's power that saves your dad from Cancer and the Saints have nothing to do with it other than sending messages.
STrict Church doctrine (as in what the Catholic Church writings actually say) believe that intercession is merely asking someone you adore to pray for you. This can include dead relatives, not just Saints, and while miracles might occur,, the prayer doesn't guarantee anything not even a sign or strange events giving advice. Hell I seen one priests state intercession wouldn't have done anything and God probably would have still sent the miracle with or without it. Basically intercession is just a way of "keeping a community" of devout believers but is not magical at all (even with Saints) according to strict Catholic documents. I seen priests criticize the two above paragraph's practice of intercession (especially the first one), saying that those methods are polytheistic and blasphemy worthy of mortal sin.
How does intercession work in the Anglican Communion and modern American Episcopal denominations ? This is one thing I grew up with and I can't imagine abandoning it if I convert to Anglican or Episcopal.