Episcopal bishop OK's same-sex weddings

[bostonian]

The Episcopal bishop in Eastern Massachusetts gave permission yesterday for priests to officiate at same-sex weddings.

www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/11/30/episcopal_bishop_approves_priests_role_in_same_sex_marriages_in_eastern_mass/

Would the last sane person in the denomination please shut off the lights on your way out.

[Uriel]

Well, I'm glad to hear about this. It's the right thing to do.

People keep trying to turn the lights out on the Episcopal Church - we just keep turning them back on.

[Swick]

I was a delegate at Diocesan Convention earlier this month, where we overwhelmingly passed a resolution asking the bishops to allow this. Very many priests had requested this, and several had ceased acting as agents of the state and marrying people at all, giving a blessing instead after the couple had had a civil marriage, as is done in most of Europe.

[bostonian]

It is not Biblical and it is not Christian. It is wrong.

[Sojourner]

I'm not sure that either of your assertions is objectively true, Bostonian. But, I leave further discussion for another day.

[bostonian]

It's clearly not Biblical. If I had a nickel for every time the Bible called homosexuality an abomination...

I'm sorry to be so argumentative about this, but this upsets me a great deal. I have enjoyed being an Episcopalian and I have met many wonderful people at my church. My faith has helped me in my life quite a bit. But I must leave the Episcopal Church now, and that really sucks. I don't know where I will go, but I absolutely cannot be a part of this Church any longer.

[cec1964]

This comes as no surprise at all coming from the Episcopal Church and their heretic leadership. Good grief, this comes from a church who have had bishops like the great liberal heretics like James Pike and John Shelby Spong who rejected the Trinity and original sin, mocked the Virgin Birth and he challenged the infallibility of scripture.
www.psalm19-7.com/homosexuality-in-the-church.html

Now you have an Episcopal priest in Arkansas who Praises Mohammed, Vishnu, Buddha, Confucius in Rogue All Saints Liturgy.
www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11596

The Liberal Episcopal Seminaries like Sewanee have Feminist Professors (Berebitsky) which was one of the 18 Sewanee professors who demanded that Christ be removed from the University Purpose statement. And Sewanee didn't fire her!
www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=11584

IT IS ALL ABOUT IDOLATRY! (Because it feels good)
www.psalm19-7.com/homosexuality-in-society.html


Idolatry is perhaps the greatest of all sins because it opens the door to unrestrained evil. It gives sinners license not only to live in sin, but to sanction it, which comes from Satan. Many a church has made a God in their image, one they feel comfortable with in their mind, now they can create their own moral standards to go along with him…or her. You see this happening in the Episcopal Church USA, Evangelical Lutheran Church today along with many more.http://www.psalm19-7.com/homosexuality-in-the-church.html


The problem is that sin is so enticing to the lost that they prefer to live in darkness rather than remain in the light of the conscience. To them, the conscience is a downer. It is so much more fun to live in sin and create a God in their own mind that is alright with their sinful lifestyle. Many people snuff out the light and abandon themselves to the dark world of sin, not realizing the terrible consequences of their actions. As A.W. Tozer once wrote, idolatry (making a God to suit ourselves) leads to a dulled conscience.


False converts have never “crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts” (Galatians 5:24). Therefore, like the pig, their natural inclination is to go back to wallowing in the cool dirty mud. Pigs need to wallow in the mud to cool their flesh. So it is with false converts. They never truly repented, and their flesh is not dead with Christ. Instead, their flesh is still burning with unlawful passions, lust, wicked thoughts and perversions. The heat of lust is too much for a sinful heart; the false convert (sinner) will always return to the filth in the cool mud. These people will die in their sins and spend eternity in Hell.

Instead of preaching the good news that sinners can be made righteous in Jesus Christ and escape the horrible wrath to come, we have settled for a “modern gospel” that implies that God’s primary purpose in saving us is to unfold a “wonderful plan” for our lives; to solve all our problems, make us happy, make us healthy, give us a wonderful marriage, bring us financial prosperity and protect us from the hassles and stress of this life.

Ray Comfort
“The law was not made for a righteous man but for sinners.” It even lists the sinners: homosexuals, fornicators. If you want to bring a homosexual to Christ, don’t get into an argument with him over his perversion; he’s ready for you with his boxing gloves on. No, no. Give him the ten commandments. The law was made for homosexuals. Show him that he is damned despite his perversion.

[Uriel]

Probably this shouldn't be answered - it's mostly nonsense, and I doubt anyone will be persuaded by discussion as heated as this has begun.

But what the heck: I like the interfaith liturgy; - I wouldn't want it every week, but I think the validity of religions is more likely found in what they share rather than in the ways they differ - though each has its own contribution to make from the ways they differ - the Christian emphasis (honored too often in the breach) on love, for example.

I note a great deal that comes from fear rather than fact in these articles: e.g., the repetition of the idea that Bishop Robinson "dumped his wife." Indeed, his wife was the one who, loving him but finding an empty place in the marriage (that's what happens when gay people try to marry the opposite sex), asked for the divorce. They separated lovingly. Bishop Robinson was faithful thoughout his marriage, and only met his partner Mark some time after the divorce.

And all this rubbish about twosomes and threesomes, etc... I don't know anyone who is in favor of other than a committed relationship of two people. I am fairly liberal, and that is certainly what I support, as do all the liberals I know. The liberal position is about love, not license. There may (I say only to allow for a remote possibility) be those on the fringe who want acceptance of licentious sexual behavior, but if that ever became a possibility (not likely!) I assure all that I would oppose it.

I am sorry to see fear dictating anyone's thought. It is so unnecessary.

[cec1964]

Ok Uriel, what about just saying this:

Many a person and church has made a God in their image, one they feel comfortable with in their mind, now they can create their own moral standards to go along with him…or her. Now a Bishop can leave his wife and commit the sin oh homosexuality because now that he has created a God in his image, one he now feels comfortable with in his mind....it is ok.

I can see this coming from the sinner who sits in the back row in the Church, but the leadership (Bishops) of the church do this:

BISHOP PIKE:
Here is a man that was elected Bishop in the Episcopal Church who did not even believe in the Holy Bible. He was an alcoholic, adulterer, heretic, and liberal secularist who was married three times and had multiple affairs. He even dabbled in the demonic occult by using noted psychics and mediums, to reach and reconcile with his son who had committed suicide in 1966.

BISHOP JOHN SHELBY SPONG:
He does not believe there is a Hell; he does not believe God is a supernatural being; he rejects Jesus as the earthly incarnation of God; he denies that Jesus performed miracles; he labels the Virgin Birth as pure mythology; he derides the Easter celebration of Jesus rising from the dead; he finds it implausible to believe that Jesus ascended into heaven; and, he thinks it is ludicrous that the Bible is the word of God. He also thought Paul of Tarsus was gay.


REALITY:
Matthew 7:15-20

15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

[Uriel]

Well, cec, I agree that many, perhaps all, create God in their own image, and moral standards to go with him. I see you as doing so.

I'll have to find our more about Bishop Pike before I can say anything about him; but I like Bishop Spong, who simply says to the ordinary folk the sort of thing that is said in seminaries all the time. Though I don't think he quite said Jesus was not the earthly incarnation of God - rather that we all are, and Jesus was more aware. If I have him right, I agree with that. I think he is probably right that God is not a Being; I don't think Hell is a place; I don't think Jesus' mother was a virgin (unless Mithras' and Buddha's and a whole bunch of others for whom it was claimed were (:/ I don't know what you mean by ascended, but I don't think he went *up* (to outer space?) and I think that the Bible is the product of many people thinking intensely on the matter of the nature of God. I don't know if Paul was gay, but I don't know why it should bother you. He preached against gay behaviour, (or that is one interpretation), so I should think you would praise him for his chastity.

As for Matthew, the question is, who are the false prophets, the ravenous wolves. When I feel the hostility of the right to my own beliefs, I feel a certain lupine presence.