episcopal churches

[williamk]

hi, What is the differences between an anglocatholic and a broad church. and what is a middle church?

[angli_fan]

Hello and welcome, williamk!

Actually, the "Broad Church" IS generally considered to be the "one in the middle", between "high church" or anglo-catholic, and "low church", or evangelical.

If you really want to delve into the history of the terms, I recommend Wikipedia's discussion of the "high" and "low" forms:

High Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Church

Low Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_church;

In a nutshell, high churches tend to emphasize ritual practices that are popularly associated with Roman Catholicism (i.e. "smells, bells and yells"; incense, bell-ringing, and chanting), while the low church services tend to be less ornamented (these churches also emphasize the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" more than other Anglicans).

As for the Broad Church(in which I include myself), I will take the liberty of quoting Wikipedia directly:

"After the terms High Church and Low Church came to distinguish the tendency toward Ritualism and Anglo-Catholicism, on the one hand, and Puritanism, on the other, those Anglicans tolerant of multiple forms of conformity to ecclesiastical authority came to be referred to as "Broad." As the name implies, parishes associated with this variety of churchmanship will mix High and Low forms, reflective of the often eclectic liturgical and doctrinal preferences of clergy and laity. The emphasis is on allowing individual parishioners choice.

Nancy Mitford is alleged to have said that the three types of churchmanship one finds in the English Church are "High and crazy, low and lazy, broad and hazy." Alternatively, the look and feel of worship according to the three churchmanships sees "High" referred to as "smells and bells" (angelus bells and Incense), "Low" as "pine and pain" (hard pews, little decoration and discomfort - both physically trying and spiritually demanding), and Broad as "brass and class" (brass candlesticks and eagle lecterns, and well-heeled congregations hearing short, erudite sermons from urbane preachers)."

Of course, that last bit is tongue-in-cheek...but not all that inaccurate ;D

Hope that helps.

Pax;

angli_fan

[williamk]

admin said:

Hello and welcome, williamk!

Actually, the "Broad Church" IS generally considered to be the "one in the middle", between "high church" or anglo-catholic, and "low church", or evangelical.

If you really want to delve into the history of the terms, I recommend Wikipedia's discussion of the "high" and "low" forms:

High Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Church

Low Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_church;

In a nutshell, high churches tend to emphasize ritual practices that are popularly associated with Roman Catholicism (i.e. "smells, bells and yells"; incense, bell-ringing, and chanting), while the low church services tend to be less ornamented (these churches also emphasize the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" more than other Anglicans).

As for the Broad Church(in which I include myself), I will take the liberty of quoting Wikipedia directly:

"After the terms High Church and Low Church came to distinguish the tendency toward Ritualism and Anglo-Catholicism, on the one hand, and Puritanism, on the other, those Anglicans tolerant of multiple forms of conformity to ecclesiastical authority came to be referred to as "Broad." As the name implies, parishes associated with this variety of churchmanship will mix High and Low forms, reflective of the often eclectic liturgical and doctrinal preferences of clergy and laity. The emphasis is on allowing individual parishioners choice.

Nancy Mitford is alleged to have said that the three types of churchmanship one finds in the English Church are "High and crazy, low and lazy, broad and hazy." Alternatively, the look and feel of worship according to the three churchmanships sees "High" referred to as "smells and bells" (angelus bells and Incense), "Low" as "pine and pain" (hard pews, little decoration and discomfort - both physically trying and spiritually demanding), and Broad as "brass and class" (brass candlesticks and eagle lecterns, and well-heeled congregations hearing short, erudite sermons from urbane preachers)."

Of course, that last bit is tongue-in-cheek...but not all that inaccurate ;D

Hope that helps.

Pax;

angli_fan

Thank you for your answer. I go to a church that I think is broad. It' much like a Catholic mass with bells and incence. I went to a funeral one time and they did alot of Catholic things. They covered the casket with a pall incenced it and the altar before eucharistic prayer. I read about a Church St. Marks somewhere in Kentucky that do both services high and broad. Is this done at some churches or is it a remote doing? I know I'm asking alot of questions I think the Episcopal Church is very interesting and am going to join. Thank You Bill

[angli_fan]

In my experience, relatively few anglican churches are purely high or low; most combine elements of both.

My own parish is fairly liturgically relaxed, but we do use bells and chanting during the service, and occasionally incense.

Pax;

angli_fan

[Samuel]

I would like to invite all Episcopal members to come join a Bible centered church. Please save your souls and those of others.
Thanks for your consideration.

[Canadian Phil]

Hi Samuel;

Who says some of us aren't Bible-centred and precisely where God put us? If there is any hope for ECUSA or my own branch of Anglicanism, the Anglican Church of Canada, we need conservatives able and willing to stay put and bear witness.

Peace,
Phil

[Ginger]

Samuel said:

I would like to invite all Episcopal members to come join a Bible centered church. Please save your souls and those of others.


Im not sure we could be more Bible centered. Every service we read from the Old Testament, the Gospels, and the New Testament. If you follow the reading schedule in The Book of Common Prayer, in the course of 3 years you have read the entire Bible. Also the Anglican Church/Episcopal deriviative in the US is responsible for bringing the Bible to the New World.

We rely on reason, tradition and scripture to know God... I think that pretty much covers being a Biblical church

[Samuel]

Hi Canadian Phil,

I am glad there are conservatives like you that are hanging in there to turn the ECUSA around. My offer was for the folks that do not see the apostasy all around them.

Peace to you brother,

[Samuel]

Hi Ginger,
If you are in a conservative Bible centered church then good for you! But, if you are in the churches that refuses affirmation of Christ, as was done at the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church, then walk quickly to the door. My heart is sad for the things that took place at that convention. For further good information go to www.virtueonline.org/

peace to you,
Samuel

[James]

sorry whats the problem with being episcopalian?

[srigdon]

James,

to use your word, the 'problem' with being episcopalian, is that in the opinion of Samuel and others, the Episcopal Church has gotten too liberal.

It's too long a story to explain briefly. Read some threads on this blog and perhaps you'll understand what the concern is about. Maybe if you ask a more specific question we can answer it constructively.

[wtxdaddy]

Yet, membership in a particular organization will neither save, nor condemn any of us. Whether we are liberal, or conservative Episcopalians, we do know that nothing can separate us from the love of God. We are just arguing about one issue lately.

[seeker]

Jul 1, 2007 23:53:14 GMT -5 srigdon said:

James,

to use your word, the 'problem' with being episcopalian, is that in the opinion of Samuel and others, the Episcopal Church has gotten too liberal.

It's too long a story to explain briefly. Read some threads on this blog and perhaps you'll understand what the concern is about. Maybe if you ask a more specific question we can answer it constructively.

Hello all. My 2nd post only here, but I attended my first Episcopal service this morning after 10 years of being Catholic. Well, I'm still Catholic, but with much prayer and discernment, may be joining the Episcopal Church. What most folks need to realize is that God will be the final judge of all men, so whatever is "right" or "wrong" about a particular body of believers will be sorted out by the Almighty Judge some day. Until then, best we all be about the uplifiting of the kingdom. Peace.

[ophelia]

Thanks for all of your postings. The initial explanation on the high to low made me laugh. Glad to see humor in the Episcopal Church. I am a newbie in EC (attended several liturgies only). I just came out of a very dynamic and disappointing experience in the Orthodox Church. I know not all OC's are like the one(s) I attended but my biggest problem with their practice is the following:

One cannot receive the Eucharist if not Chrismated. I am baptized and fully understand the need for synergism and fasting to prepare oneself for Communion. I believe that it is important for newcomers (and everyone) to understand the fullness and symbolism of this wonderful and treasured Thanksgiving. However, over time, I began to see Chrismation in the OC as more of a "membership" thing rather than a Sacrament. Having to sit in the Narthex because you have not been Chrismated seems an "exclusion" practice more than a "Welcome to our House" practice.

Also, the Orthodox claim to be the best-kept secret, the one true faith, dating back to the Apostles and yet, I see very little if any outreach witnessing, and, almost no invitation to some of the most needy. I don't mean to be critical here, and yet, I do. The homeless and impoverished sit just outside their doorsteps and I never see anyone inviting them in.

Where does the Episcopal Church stand on this (regardless of the high and low forms)?

Thank you

[angli_fan]

Aug 21, 2011 10:55:08 GMT -5 ophelia said:

One cannot receive the Eucharist if not Chrismated. I am baptized and fully understand the need for synergism and fasting to prepare oneself for Communion. I believe that it is important for newcomers (and everyone) to understand the fullness and symbolism of this wonderful and treasured Thanksgiving. However, over time, I began to see Chrismation in the OC as more of a "membership" thing rather than a Sacrament. Having to sit in the Narthex because you have not been Chrismated seems an "exclusion" practice more than a "Welcome to our House" practice.

Also, the Orthodox claim to be the best-kept secret, the one true faith, dating back to the Apostles and yet, I see very little if any outreach witnessing, and, almost no invitation to some of the most needy. I don't mean to be critical here, and yet, I do. The homeless and impoverished sit just outside their doorsteps and I never see anyone inviting them in.

Where does the Episcopal Church stand on this (regardless of the high and low forms)?

Forgive me, but I am unfamiliar w/Orthodox practice. By "Chrismated", are you referring to being annointed with oil?

There is no universally observed bar to participation in our service. Many episcopalians (myself included) believe that only baptized Christians should receive Communion, but others disagree. In any case, I know of no Episcopal Churches that require proof of baptism in order to receive the bread and wine-the burden is on the person receiving to refrain if they think they should, not on the priest to prevent them. Of course, this applies only to eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ; there is no reason at all for unbaptized people not to participate fully in all the other parts of the service.

Also, note that I said "baptized Christians" not "baptized Episcopalians". If some other church has baptized you with water(whether sprinkled, dipped, poured or dunked), in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that's good enough for us.

As to the other question; the Episcopal Church does affirm the validity of the the Apostolic Succession(the belief that our Bishops' authority is derived thru laying on of hands by other bishops in an unbroken line dating back to the Apostles), but that is hardly an exclusive claim. All mainline churches with an "episcopal" structure (meaning they have Bishops-the word "episcopal" derives from the Greek word for "Bishop"*) claims this connection. This includes, at least: the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the Greek Orthodox, Anglicans/Episcopalians and some Lutherans; probably other groups as well.

Episcopalians certainly don't claim to be the "one true church" or anything of the sort.

Hope that answers your questions, and welcome to Episcopal Voices!

Pax;

angli_fan

*of course, being Orthodox, you probably already knew that...