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Post by holly3278 on Apr 11, 2008 20:19:13 GMT -5
Is premarital sex ok or not? I believe it is ok between two consenting adults.
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Post by Uriel on Apr 12, 2008 3:19:01 GMT -5
Welcome to the Episcopal Church!
As for your question, my current feeling is, as it has developed since my 60's youth, is that in or out of church, pre-marital sex is a fact of life. As a clergyman I know put it , best intentions of "waiting" often turn into, "I won't...I won't..oops, I did..." I think that young people should be taught respect for others in all things, they ashould be taught about the very real risks that exist now that didn't exist earlier, etc.
But any sin connected with sex has to do with exploitation, lack of respect, etc. People have to work out a lot for themselves.
Of course, gay sex is always outside of marriage, so in my opinion, that has to be okay between consenting adults.
This is just my opinion, shared, I think, by many (most?) Episcopalians, but no doubt not all. I have always felt that, as an Episcopalian, I was never told any way I had to think.
All the best Uriel
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Post by holly3278 on Apr 12, 2008 4:06:58 GMT -5
Welcome to the Episcopal Church! As for your question, my current feeling is, as it has developed since my 60's youth, is that in or out of church, pre-marital sex is a fact of life. As a clergyman I know put it , best intentions of "waiting" often turn into, "I won't...I won't..oops, I did..." I think that young people should be taught respect for others in all things, they ashould be taught about the very real risks that exist now that didn't exist earlier, etc. But any sin connected with sex has to do with exploitation, lack of respect, etc. People have to work out a lot for themselves. Of course, gay sex is always outside of marriage, so in my opinion, that has to be okay between consenting adults. This is just my opinion, shared, I think, by many (most?) Episcopalians, but no doubt not all. I have always felt that, as an Episcopalian, I was never told any way I had to think. All the best Uriel I agree. People need to be taught respect in all things. Respect for the other person should always be important when considering whether or not to have sex with them.
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Post by Canadian Phil on Apr 12, 2008 9:11:17 GMT -5
Well, a negative vote here, although I fully concede that it happens regularly. I just don't buy the arguement that, because it happens all the time, it is okay. The Bible is pretty clear on this: sexual activity is expected in the context of a marriage. Outside, it is not.
That said, where we agree is how to deal with this pastorally. If we kicked out every person who had pre-marital sex in the church (repentent or not), there wouldn't be many people left (including me). It is a fact of life, given the messages we get in the secular society, that this will happen. It is also far from the most heinous sin (insofar as we rank sins, which I do have an issue with). And, yes, the degree of a problem pre-marital sex creates depends greatly on context, so pre-marital sex between two people who are already committed to each other is less of an issue than sleeping with anyone and his dog. Yet, I don't think it is for the best and I think the Bible is right on this one.
Peace, Phil
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srigdon
Eucharistic Assistant
Posts: 214
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Post by srigdon on Apr 12, 2008 17:19:40 GMT -5
I'm basically with Phil on this one. By my own observations, most long-term relationships between a man and a woman which are sexual involve the man's lack of respect for the woman. Sex without commitment is such a better deal for the man than the woman, and I don't understand why women don't see that. If a man isn't willing to make a commitment or can't be bothered to spend the time to figure out if he wants one, then it's pretty clear he's just in it for the sex, and every day in the relationship brings him a day closer to when he dumps the woman for a younger choice. And I don't care if the woman thinks it's consensual - just because she is making a foolish decision doesn't mean it is right for somebody else to take advantage.
Also, there's also the risk of pregnancy. A child deserves a committed father.
As I wrote in a recent post, I have a harder time with the issue of whether a couple needs to figure out whether they are somehow sexually "compatible" before they marry. I don't feel I understand this side of things very well, though, as I have no experience with it myself.
Since the choice is between yes and no, I'll vote no.
I might add that I think this issue is a much greater threat to the Episcopal Church than any other issue we curently face. Parents do not want their children hearing a free love message at church. A church that officially goes soft on premarital sex is probably doomed.
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Post by holly3278 on Apr 12, 2008 19:52:42 GMT -5
Thank you for your opinions guys.
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Post by Uriel on Apr 16, 2008 11:59:02 GMT -5
Srigdon: I think women do see that long-term relationships with men without marriage are a bad deal. That's not quite the same as "pre-marital sex" altogether, however. Which I think is a fact of life. I think it is worse for women in a society such as we had in the 50s, which stigmatizes the woman as "loose." I would not advise young people to participate in promiscuous sex, but I think there are very few couples, even now (or in our parents' generation) who were new to sex with each other on their wedding night.
Uriel
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srigdon
Eucharistic Assistant
Posts: 214
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Post by srigdon on Apr 16, 2008 22:31:15 GMT -5
I think women do see that long-term relationships with men without marriage are a bad deal.
Well, I guess we meet different women. I have been astounded at the number of women I've met who wasted years on men in their twenties and thirties and don't get the idea that they're being used until they're 40.
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Post by Uriel on Apr 17, 2008 0:43:42 GMT -5
"...and don't get the idea that they're being used until they're 40." It's certainly true that age brings wisdom! Best Uriel
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Post by christian on Apr 30, 2008 5:16:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure why anyone's opinion is of any importance here. I'm of the opinion that fornication is a wonderful thing. All things being equal I'd indulge all the time. But all things are not equal. God has ordained and spoken to us through his word that sex should only be practiced inside of marriage. I know not what others may do, but as for me and my house, we will follow The Lord.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 30, 2008 8:38:34 GMT -5
"...we will follow The Lord."
Well, said. However, I usually add the comment, "in so far as my faulty, human brain can fully apprehend the truth." And, of course, knowing full well that if I am wrong, there are going to be some gleeful sheep who will throw this old goat over the side into that burning pit..
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Post by comanche250 on May 3, 2008 8:21:35 GMT -5
Is premarital sex ok or not? I believe it is ok between two consenting adults. Yeah....it's a huge part of human relationships. What if a person abstained until getting married, only to find out his partner had major sexual hang-ups he couldn't live with? Not good. Instead of abstinence, we should teach responsibility. People don't abstain. It's an impractical and unrealistic expectation.
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Post by christian on May 3, 2008 13:56:07 GMT -5
Well Comanche I'm sure a lot of pubescent males would agree with you. Your reasoning clearly displays the fallen nature of this world. It also shows that the center of your universe is the contents of our own skull. Christians, however, are beholding to a power outside of themselves, a power on display in scripture and understandable by the use of tradition and reason on Scripture. This Christian power says your idea is wrong.
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Post by comanche250 on May 4, 2008 15:49:13 GMT -5
You're not the Christian power. You're just one of millions interpreting Christ's message. My interpretation says your interpretation is too doctrinaire and lacks compassion. It also says it's unrealistic and one of the reasons youth today question the relevance of Christianity. Something also tells me you haven't lived up to your own stringent interpretations .
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Post by christian on May 6, 2008 6:36:46 GMT -5
The limitation of sexual practice to marriage is not my interpretation of "Christ's message". Rather it is clearly delineated in the Bible, not only in the old and new testaments, but also in Christ's words. If you are receiving a message that contradicts this position then show some scriptural warrant for it. Is such a message really from Christ (God) if it contradicts Scripture?
Do you really believe that Christianity is an insane babel of millions of contradictory messages?
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