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Post by Sojourner on Jun 14, 2008 17:14:14 GMT -5
Nini, Forgive my rather late response. As noted in my profile I am from Indiana and we have been hit with a savage round of tornadoes and floods. In my real life I am involved in the management of events such as these. My recent 18 hour days have precluded me from posting to the board.
My intent was not to shoot you an intellectual putdown; rather, it was to post my own perception of what my "agenda" is. "Agenda" is, for me, a word that carries with it some powerful, emotive (and imprecise) baggage. It has been my experience that when someone says that another person has an agenda, there is an implication that the person using the word has an idea as to what that agenda is. I wished to put forth, in the clearest terms possible, what my agenda was, while offering you an opportunity to state if you thought my agenda was other than what I stated. It was not my intent to issue you an intellectual put down, but to speak plainly the truth as I perceived it. Any offense you may have taken is a result of poor word choice -- not an act of intentionality.
dj, I've read your response. For clarification, are you saying that we do not know whether heaven, hell or purgatory exist? The reason I ask is that your post seems to be similar in argument as "if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it...." How do I know heaven, hell and purgatory exist?
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Post by dj on Jun 15, 2008 18:56:12 GMT -5
dj, I've read your response. For clarification, are you saying that we do not know whether heaven, hell or purgatory exist? The reason I ask is that your post seems to be similar in argument as "if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it...." How do I know heaven, hell and purgatory exist? What I'm saying is that 1) Heaven, hell and purgatory either exist or do not exist. That existence (or not) is NOT dependent upon whether humans (either collectively or individually) think they exist or not: and 2) Human sense perception and human intellection are not particularly useful tools in determining whether or not they exist. Empiricism has its limits. As to how you, in particular, might know of their existence, since I only know you through your writing here, and nothing of your prayer life, ascetical life, etc., it would be impossible for me to even suggest an approach to the question. But even if I knew you quite well I would likely not venture anything more than the most general comments, as anything specific would likely be perilous for both of us. Cheers, dj
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dave
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Post by dave on Jun 1, 2021 12:23:19 GMT -5
I found this in the online version of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer, catechism section, bcponline.org/"Q. Why do we pray for the dead?" "A. We pray for them, because we still hold them in our love, and because we trust that in God's presence those who have chosen to serve him will grow in his love, until they see him as he is." Sorry for my late response (last relevant post was 13 years ago!) but I hoped this might be helpful if anyone else wondered by we pray for the dead.
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