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Episcopal Voices :: General :: General Episcopal Discussion :: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals Author Topic: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals (Read 98 times) Uriel Eucharistic Assistant member is offline Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 184 Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Thread Started on Oct 21, 2009, 4:38pm » You sort of get tired of thinking - "And these are Christians???!" Well, as Gandhi so clearly remarked, "Your Christians.....are so unlike your Christ." http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/faith_....on_or_deat.html Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Uriel Eucharistic Assistant member is offline Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 184 Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #1 on Oct 21, 2009, 4:41pm » Clarification: I add that, of course, it is the government, not the church, which will enact this; it is the silence of the church that is so typical; I await, but will not hold my breath, the opposing response of Orombi and company. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged christian Guest Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #2 on Oct 26, 2009, 6:14am » Uriel, I am shocked that you would make these vicious personal comments about this black bishop. What kind of Christian are you that you make such racist statements? « Last Edit: Oct 26, 2009, 6:19am by christian » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged christian Guest Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #3 on Oct 26, 2009, 6:16am » Gandhi also said "Hate the sin, love the sinner"' Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged angli_fan Presiding Moderator member is offline Back In The Fight... Joined: Nov 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 1,212 Location: Diocese of Lexington, KY, USA Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #4 on Oct 27, 2009, 9:43am » Oct 26, 2009, 6:14am, christian wrote: Uriel, I am shocked that you would make these vicious personal comments about this black bishop. What kind of Christian are you that you make such racist statements? Christian- Please review the forum rules. In progressing from "vicious" to "racist" in your characterization of Uriel's comments, you have crossed the line into personal attack. In fact it is you, not she who has brought race into this thread. Flaming is not allowed here. angli_fan « Last Edit: Oct 27, 2009, 9:45am by angli_fan » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged God, grant me the Grace to accept with Serenity the people I cannot change, the Courage to change the one I can, and the Wisdom to know it’s me. christian Guest Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #5 on Oct 27, 2009, 10:24pm » Anglifan, I doubt very much that Uriel is a racist, in fact I would place the likelihood of that at far less than 1%. I was very careful not to say that she was a racist, only that her comments were racist, and I only said that as a display of irrational emotional appeal. This emotionalism is what passes for debate for many left leaning TECians. I am quite new to this form of argumentation. I much prefer reasoned debate, and I am quite open to, and sometimes have changed my mind as the result of a well reasoned argument, especially if it points out an oversight or fallacy in my position. In addition, if I do not know a great deal on a subject I will offer no comment on that subject. This new form of argumentation, which is now acceptable in college debating clubs, seems to set out two boundaries, one for each side of the debate. And the object of the debate seems to be to cruise as close as you dare to your boundary and attempt to get your opponent to transgress his boundary. These boundaries seem to be set quite arbitrarily, and in fact often favor one side or the other in a very lopsided manner. The first to transgress his boundary not only looses but becomes an object of opprobrium. Thus it is that it is OK to doubt the Christianity of a very successful Bishop because he hasn't done something you wished him to do, but it is beyond the pale to describe that doubting as vicious or racist even satirically. Now I don't know about you, but I would rather be a vicious, racist Christian, rather than be not vicious, not racist, and not a Christian. Fortunately I am not a racist and I am a Christian, though Uriel may doubt it. And I am from time to time vicious in support of my beloved church. Several years ago I realized that the relationship of homosexual behavior to my beloved church was becoming increasingly important. Since I only had hunches and opinions on the subject, and precious few of my fellow Episcopalians seemed knowledgeable, I set out to inform myself. I have read tomes on the subject of homosexuality, I have read topical guides to scripture on the subject, I have read the Bible (RSV) from cover to cover with the thought in the back of my mind: "How does this apply to homosexual behavior." It is quite clear that God thinks of homosexual behavior as sinful, and no amount of clapping or ringing of bells (obscure reference to "Hook" and "It's a Wonderful Life") will change that. This is not my preference, I would much prefer the opposite, but it is our Lords preference, and in all things I defer to the Lord. This is a rather tedious way of saying that I have informed myself on the subject and I am ready to logically and rationally discuss it with anyone who is also informed. If you are uninformed perhaps you should just keep you opinions to yourself, or not even form opinions in the first place. Wait until you are at least informed concerning the rudiments of the topic. At least have some recognition that you know precious little about it and refrain from characterizing as not Christian anyone who disagrees with the hunch you picked out of the air. And out of love for the church, love of my fellow man, and love of the truth I will even embrace this newfangled progressive way of debating. I thought one of the rules was that if you disagree with a black man then you are a racist, full of hate, and your comments are vicious. It is in that spirit that I offered my characterization of Uriel's remarks. Is it not true that that calling someone unchristian is beyond the pale? « Last Edit: Oct 27, 2009, 10:42pm by christian » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged angli_fan Presiding Moderator member is offline Back In The Fight... Joined: Nov 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 1,212 Location: Diocese of Lexington, KY, USA Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #6 on Oct 28, 2009, 10:48am » Christian- I am uninterested in justifications, or clever rhetorical constructions. We are not having a conversation about this. No one was talking about race in this thread until you brought it up. If someone were actually making racist statements on this board, you would have to get in line behind me to call them on it. Your accusation of racist language in this case was both a non sequitur, and unacceptable. Don't do it again. angli_fan Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged God, grant me the Grace to accept with Serenity the people I cannot change, the Courage to change the one I can, and the Wisdom to know it’s me. Uriel Eucharistic Assistant member is offline Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 184 Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #7 on Nov 3, 2009, 3:48pm » Has anyone heard anything about anyone in the Anglican world, in any province, in TEC or the dissident groups, denouncing, or even commenting on, this outrageous legislation? If so, I have missed it, and would be very glad to have it brought to my attention. But I suspect that nothing has been said publicly by anyone of any position anywhere. Best, Uriel Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Canadian Phil Saint member is offline Joined: Nov 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 721 Location: Toronto, ON Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #8 on Nov 7, 2009, 10:53am » Since I'm never one to back away from a challenge. How 'bout this from Anglican Mainstream on November 6th? A statement from the Anglican Church in Uganda. By the way, I'm not endorsing the opinions in this piece, but I note article 3 http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=17395 or, for that matter, Fulcrum (the leading Anglican evangelical organization in UK and a major voice for Anglican evangelical worldwide) has issued an extensive briefing about the law, the context in Uganda, why this is not acceptable to Anglican moral teaching and what we can do. It gives superb legal and cultural background and an excellent summary of the moral issues raised by this law. I strongly recommend reading it. http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/page.cfm?ID=482 I'm sure if I kept digging, I would find more, but I hope that is enough to satisfy your request. Peace, Phil Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged si Deus pro nobis quis contra nos Uriel Eucharistic Assistant member is offline Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 184 Re: Uganda proposes death penalty for homosexuals « Reply #9 on Nov 8, 2009, 5:23pm » Thanks, Phil. That is helpful. Best, Uriel Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Forum Jump--------------------» Home--------------------» General--------------------- Inquirer's Class- General Episcopal Discussion- Episcopal Voices Archive

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